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Post by Ironside on Nov 28, 2010 16:34:17 GMT -6
board.belegarth.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=36165Has anyone been following this discussion on changing the rules so that 1 handed stabs do 1 point of damage to armor? (IE, treating single green like a blue hit) Rhun Closer is going to playtest this. I've been reading through a lot of this, and people are making some very good arguments. I can kinda see things from multiple angles. As a spearfighter, I love the idea of singles being effective on armor. As someone who wants armor, I hate the idea of it getting nerfed, and being prison shanked by Jesters. As someone who thinks into rules, I really think this is going to ruin armor and completely overpower archers. Archery would be looking at a rules change and I think people would plain old stop making/wearing armor. What do you guys think about all this?
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Post by noodle on Nov 28, 2010 17:54:17 GMT -6
I don't see any change that they can make to ranged weapons that would make them stronger, other then making them go through head armor (note, now that would just be dumb).
The only thing is, if I remember was that they are talking about, that really matters to me, was making pierced limbs count towards the 2 and you're dead thing.
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Post by Ironside on Nov 28, 2010 18:13:17 GMT -6
In my opinion, archers are already pretty overpowered. If single green ruins armor...wait.
Actually, it would kinda balance archers a little more. Two shanks = 1 arrow, as opposed to useless shanks. I guess I may have spoke without thinking too much into archery. Still armor would be nerfed like hell if the change passes.
The pieced limbs leading to death wouldn't really bother me any. I usually take pieced into factor as in two disabled limbs = death. I sometimes just flat out forget.
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Post by noodle on Nov 28, 2010 18:31:08 GMT -6
Ehh armor will still do what it's meant to do, lets you make more mistakes. I don't see this change as very game breaking.
Hell I only realized that single greens affected armor different until after I got back from fest and saw that post on the boards
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Post by Khador Administrator on Nov 29, 2010 13:42:15 GMT -6
I am netural. I see both arguments.
What confuses me is that people are saying that this gives archers and spearmen/spearwomen more power, even though double handed and airbowrn missles goes thru armor, except heads.
BTW this will not be play tested at Rhun closer now.
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Post by Ironside on Nov 29, 2010 14:09:56 GMT -6
It pumps spears up a bit. Say, an armed spearman, would actually have a chance at killing a fully armored fighter with a couple of stabs, instead of being a big useless target.
Really, as I see it, pumping single greens is really just bringing armor down a notch. Which really does suck.
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swerv
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Post by swerv on Nov 29, 2010 15:17:55 GMT -6
If the change happens, everyone will want green tips that much more!
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Kracken
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Post by Kracken on Dec 2, 2010 22:59:34 GMT -6
I just see it as people getting bitchy because all of the sudden any idiot can make a passing stab tip. A year ago it didn't matter because stab tips were so damn rare. And sucked. Now all the sudden armor is that much more awesome because people are stab happy and forgetting that they have two hands. Or that they just need to hit more and suck less.
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Wilhelm
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Post by Wilhelm on Dec 3, 2010 16:55:11 GMT -6
I think Kraken has about the right of it..
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Post by Frozgaar on Dec 23, 2010 1:09:59 GMT -6
I wouldn't mind the change personally... I mean, all it does is simplify the rules a little more, and not necessarily in a bad way. Basically single greens do the same thing as single blues. This is good because it encourages fighters to use the same types of shots against armored opponents as they would an unarmored opponent. In terms of realism it makes sense too because in a battle with real weapons and armor it's entirely possible to stab through most types of armor with a one-handed sword, even more-so with 2 consecutive stabs.
Does it nerf armor? A little bit, but not nearly enough to make it completely useless. It still prevents one single handed shot. In some battles that could be the difference between life and death.
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Post by Ironside on Dec 23, 2010 7:52:44 GMT -6
Putting more thought into it, I think it doesn't so much pump up the weapons as it does kill off the armor. Undamaged armor would shut down a lot of really good shots, giving fighters more reason to wear it. A couple quick stabs from a blue will now murder the crap out of you instead of making you yay for your armor.
Sure, it's a little more historical. So are pommel and crossguard strikes. So is fighting an armored opponent differently than fighting an unarmored one. If we were going by historics, the club would rock the field and flatblades would be useless against people in armor. Remember the order of stuff in Belegarth.
1. Safety. 2. Playability. 3. Historically Accurate.
Kracken really made the best point in here. Stabs tips are now becoming a standard feature. People who have armor love that they can shut down a lot of good stabs if their armor is undamaged. People who can stab hate that they can't use those good shots and murder the crap out of armored foes. While I do think it makes the rules easier, especially to new people, I think it effects armor very negatively and messes with playability.
The only thing I would really like to see differently with greens, personally, is pierced limbs count towards death.
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Kracken
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Post by Kracken on Dec 24, 2010 22:04:19 GMT -6
As far as historical accuracy goes a good solid stab is actually more likely to pierce most armor than a slash. That being said, I good hit from an ax would mess up pretty much any armor. How many people do you see using axes? Maces and clubs are coming back around in popularity to most people's disdain, but historically most people would have them. Clubs are easier to make and do more damage than a sword would. But really is we were really into historical accuracy we'd spend about half the day kicking each other in the junk. Seriously, look up english swordfighting. I'm not even kidding; there were over 50 different combos that either ended or revolved around a swift kick to the coin purse. www.amazon.com/Medieval-Combat-Fifteenth-Century-Swordfighting-Close-Quarter/dp/1853675822I'll admit that when I started I was really into the historical side of the sport. That died after about the millionth time I got killed because I was treating my sword and shield like they weighed 20lbs. Belegarth is about as historically accurate as Middle Earth. And changing your attack pattern because someone's wearing armor isn't hard. Everyone does it at least once person round because if you're killing everyone on the field exactly the same way then those dumbasses need to learn them something new. You not dying in a nutshell: "O, he's skinny, I'm gonna eat him." "O, he's fat. I'm gonna whack him in the knee." "O, he's wearing armor. I'm either gonna: A. whack him in the knees; or B. hit him twice as much." Every single person you fight you mentally change what you're game plan is, regardless if you realize it or not. And yeah, I'll agree greens might be nice counting toward death. But that will take half of the funny out of the sport. That's the only reason I'm against that part.
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